A MARTÍNEZ, HOST:
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy says Russia's war on Ukraine is fueling an arms race that is threatening humanity and that the war will spread if Russia is not forced into a durable peace deal.
STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Zelenskyy said that at the U.N. General Assembly on Wednesday. He spoke during a week when President Trump again shifted his stance on the war, asserting this time that Ukraine could win and that the United States would keep supplying weapons. But how do all those words sound when they're heard in the country that's under attack?
MARTÍNEZ: Joining us now to discuss all this is NPR's correspondent Joanna Kakissis, who is in Kyiv. Joanna, so Ukrainians - how are they reacting to President Trump's seemingly sudden about-face on Ukraine?
JOANNA KAKISSIS, BYLINE: Well, A, Ukrainians have been telling me that they are grateful Trump seems to be acknowledging Russia is the aggressor in this war and that he is talking about Ukraine's territorial integrity. Because earlier this year, the Ukrainians heard Trump saying that their country does not have the cards to win and seemed to be pushing Ukraine into giving up its territory in exchange for a peace deal with Russia. Now, that said, Trump has also not offered Ukraine things like concrete security guarantees or additional U.S. sanctions on Russia.
I spoke with Oleksandr Kraiev. He's the director of the North America Program at the Ukrainian Prism Foreign Policy Council here in Kyiv. And he said that it sounds like Trump is also saying something that he's said before.
OLEKSANDR KRAIEV: He's not speaking about America doing more or himself doing something additional. So he's just stating the fact that somebody should do something about it, but definitely not me.
KAKISSIS: So Kraiev said that the Trump administration could be distancing itself from the peace process and shifting the burden onto the European Union.
MARTÍNEZ: But is that even possible, I mean, at this stage, for the U.S. to distance itself from a peace process?
KAKISSIS: Well, Zelenskyy has said repeatedly that the U.S. is key to securing a durable peace deal. He upped the ante at the U.N. by saying that the war is fueling a global arms race with, quote, weapons "evolving faster than our ability to defend ourselves."
I also spoke with Oleksandr Merezhko. He's a lawmaker from Zelenskyy's party and head of Parliament's Foreign Affairs Committee. And he said Trump has already made big promises, like saying he will put maximum pressure on Russia to agree to an unconditional ceasefire.
OLEKSANDR MEREZHKO: He promised also severe consequences for Russia if Russia rejects this, so it's too late for Trump. It is his war. So he just needs to be consistent and to deliver on his promises if he wants to remain a credible politician.
KAKISSIS: And I also spoke with yet another member of Parliament, Ivanna Klympush-Tsintsadze. And she said that it would be close to impossible for Ukraine to reclaim occupied land entirely through military means.
IVANNA KLYMPUSH-TSINTSADZE: And without U.S. engagement, it will be very, very difficult because I don't think that Russia is capable of changing its behavior if it doesn't feel the pressure, if it doesn't feel the economic pain, industrial pain, military pain of its own actions.
KAKISSIS: So what she's saying is Russia won't negotiate unless the U.S. forces it to.
MARTÍNEZ: Yeah, and there's that. So how's Russia responded to President Trump's apparent shift?
KAKISSIS: Well, the Kremlin has dismissed Trump's suggestion that Ukraine could win this war. Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov also took issue with Trump calling Russia a paper tiger - that it looks strong, but is actually weak. Peskov said, actually, Russia's a bear, and there's nothing paper about a bear. So it's a cryptic message, but a sign that Russia won't end its war on Ukraine anytime soon.
MARTÍNEZ: NPR's Joanna Kakissis is in Kyiv. Joanna, thanks.
KAKISSIS: You're welcome. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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