AYESHA RASCOE, HOST:
Roman Dial has been exploring the Brooks Range in northern Alaska for almost 50 years. It's one of the wildest, most remote places in the United States.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "ARCTIC ALCHEMY")
ROMAN DIAL: If I add up all the miles that I've walked or paddled, bicycled or ice skated or skied, I think it ends up being about 7,000 miles just in the Brooks Range. There may be no better place on Earth, really, to engage with the environment as a primal human animal than the Brooks Range.
RASCOE: Dial is an adventurer and climate scientist and the subject of a new short documentary. It's called "Arctic Alchemy." It's produced by Jon Krakauer, the bestselling author. They both join me now. Welcome to the program.
DIAL: Thank you.
JON KRAKAUER: Thank you.
RASCOE: So, Roman, in the movie, we see you make the scientific expedition into the Brooks Range. And this is the largest wilderness in the U.S. There's this mystery where these pristine rivers are suddenly running orange, almost rusty. Like, what did you discover, Roman?
DIAL: Well, what we did discover was that because the atmosphere is warming four times faster in the Arctic than anywhere else in the world, the permafrost is thawing. And that's the ground that's frozen for several years in a row. And as it thaws, it's dropping deeper and exposing rocks that haven't been exposed in thousands of years. And the water reacts with the rocks and produces acid and mobilizes metals like iron that flow into the water. It's a pretty dramatic combination of warming, permafrost thaw and geology.
RASCOE: But the way that you - you know, the way that you gathered this research - that was an adventure in and of itself, right? Because, you know, maybe a lot of researchers would be using helicopters. But you're out for days in kayaks and on foot. And why is that?
DIAL: Well, I can cover a lot more ground that way. And you can see a lot more when you're on the surface of the Earth, moving at a human pace, than racing over it in a - in some sort of motorized vehicle.
KRAKAUER: And one thing the film points out is that helicopters are really expensive. You know, science budgets are being cut. What Roman and his colleagues did on these scientific expeditions - to do what they have done would have cost millions of dollars to do that with an - in a helicopter, going in and out and landing. So it makes sense in a lot of ways.
RASCOE: We see this stunning imagery and scenery of the Alaskan wilderness in the film, but it is also clear that these places are suffering as the climate changes. What is it like for both of you to see these places that you love, that you've been to, that you've explored so much, change so drastically?
KRAKAUER: It's heartbreaking and scary. It's terrifying. This is serious stuff, really serious, happening before our eyes, and it seems to be happening much faster than predicted. And the fact that we're all kind of ignoring it is alarming to me.
DIAL: You know, I think people are paying attention, but they're not changing their lifestyles. We're not really changing what we do and what we're spewing out into the atmosphere. But I think people are really taking note and people are worried, and eventually we're going to have to scale back somehow.
RASCOE: Roman, this film - it talks about climate change, but it also talks about some deeply personal things for you. We hear about your son, Cody, who died on a solo trip in a jungle in Costa Rica. Can you tell us a little bit about Cody and about how that loss has shaped your life?
DIAL: Yeah. You know, I mean, it was - is - it's the worst thing that's ever happened to me, is to lose my son. And I spent a lot of time with him as he grew up doing wilderness adventures. And so it's - I mean, there's really - I feel like when I can go back to these wild places, it kind of helps with that pain. And by including other young people that I can mentor in these places, that gives me, you know, some solace. No replacement, but it does help.
RASCOE: Is part of, you know, what you do in nature - it seems like it is in dedication to him and in dedication to his legacy.
DIAL: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. I mean, if he were alive, he'd be up there helping me now.
RASCOE: And, Jon, I read that you decided to stop writing books. Why is that?
KRAKAUER: Well, I'm 71, quickly going on 72, and I'm, like, OCD. For me to write, I write pretty much 24/7, and I have a wife who I would like to spend time with and thankfully still wants to spend time with me. So that's part of it. Yeah. And the last book I wrote was so traumatic. I've - writing's really hard for me. It's the hardest thing I do. I mean, I like hard things, but it - that was too hard. So I'm looking to do - I'm still very busy writing other stuff. Just not books.
RASCOE: So it seems like you're, like, in this third act of your life. What are you hoping to focus on?
KRAKAUER: Growing old, time starts moving fast, and life is really finite. I mean, you know, I can see that I'm not going to be around very much longer, and that's a good thing. It makes me live more intentionally. I mean, it's a really good thing, I think, to think about your mortality.
RASCOE: You think it's a...
KRAKAUER: And...
RASCOE: ...Good thing? Why? Why?
KRAKAUER: Yeah.
RASCOE: Why?
KRAKAUER: Because it's the truth. We're all going to die.
RASCOE: (Laughter) Yeah.
KRAKAUER: And you got - your time here is limited, and it's good you're reminded you should make the most of it. This is the only chance you've got. And that includes, you know, taking risks. I mean, Roman losing his son was unimaginable. But Roman and I both have lost friends, many friends, to adventurous pursuits like climbing. And I remind myself that to live an overly cautious life in many ways is as dangerous as its opposite.
RASCOE: And, Roman, you've also made a big change in your third act. We learn in the movie that you've now retired as a professor. We see you mentoring students and them wanting to follow in your footsteps. What do you think are the challenges for the next generation of scientists?
DIAL: Oh, boy. The challenges are going to be, you know, finding a job and actually finding a public that's willing to listen to the truth. You know, I am - I'm worried about the students that I've helped move towards a scientific career. And I hope that this is just a - like, a little passing storm and that we can - that we'll get back to a society that believes knowledge and information is useful in dealing with what's coming.
RASCOE: The film ends with a call to action. The Trump administration recently approved a new 200-mile mining road through this wilderness. What would that mean for this area and for the both of you?
KRAKAUER: It will be devastating. It - the - whatever benefits there are, and there will be some, are far outweighed by the harm to this last great wilderness in the United States. It's a - it just doesn't make sense. I mean, we need to hang on to these kind of places. There are reservoirs of nature and diversity. And to, you know, sacrifice them for short-term goals like wealth and minerals - there's other alternatives out there. There's no need to put this road in. Absolutely no need.
DIAL: What often people will say is, well, it's just one road in an area that's the size of New England. What harm could that possibly cause? I mean, on a human body, you know, one slice with a knife is just a small area. But if that slice is across, you know, a vital part of your body, it can kill you. And I don't think people really realize the places that they want to develop are actually really critical places.
RASCOE: That's Roman Dial and Jon Krakauer talking about their new short documentary, "Arctic Alchemy." Thank you both so much.
DIAL: Thank you.
KRAKAUER: Thanks for having us. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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